A Gnome Tank’s World

Phat Purples #3: Fairer Systems

August 23rd, 2008 Posted in Uncategorized

So far I’ve introduced simple loot systems, and basic DKP systems. We’ve seen that in a basic DKP system there’s nothing to stop people from hoarding their currency, and encourage people to spend their points instead, and even worse, there’s nothing to stop someone from taking a raid break during a period of difficult learning encounters and then come back and take all the loot for themselves after other people have worked out the strategies.

A basic way to do this is to introduce a decay to the system. Say every raid that each member of the guild is deducted 5% of their points. This is an intentionally low amount - enough that the raiders will see an increase in their points from raid to raid, but not so much that if someone stops turning up to raids they see a reduction. A good mantra for this is “Effort put in this week is always more valuable than effort put in last week”. Once it is clear in raiders’ minds that they aren’t being punished (deductions for, say, not turning up to raids are on the top of this decay, and reservists still get their points for being available), then most people are happy with this idea.

However, there is a problem here. And it’s this: While everyone pays the same proportion of their points in the decay, the decay is a much greater chunk of purchasing power for those people who have 1000 points than it is for those with 10. It’s necessary to balance this somehow.

Enter systems like EPGP.

EPGP, unlike most DKP systems, has two numbers. One - Effort Points - is the conventional DKP number - points are granted for downing bosses, turning up to raids, etc, etc. The other number - Gear Points - is a score based on the amount of gear that that raider has acquired in raids (nowhere else, just from boss kills, and the occasional trash epic).

Gear scores are determined by the item level of the item and its use (so a relic is much less valuable than a breastplate) and are fixed. By dividing the Effort Points a member has accrued by their Gear Points, a number, the Priority, is reached (the EPGP addon will do all this for you, in addition to assigning gear points for loot, effort points for turning up, etc). The person whose Priority is highest and who is interested in the item, is awarded it, along with the relevant number of Gear Points, which serve to reduce his priority. As he gains more effort points, his priority rises again. Think of it like Suicide Kings on steroids.

In this system, it is important to impose a decay. Both effort points and gear points are reduced by the same proportion each week. This means that purchasing power remains constant rather than being reduced. The one exception to this is to add a limit for effort points below which a player may not take loot that another player wants. This should ideally take no more than 2 or 3 raids to exceed. If a decay is not implemented, then a raider’s purchasing power declines over time. An increase in 10 Effort points is a lot more for someone starting with 100 than starting with 1000.

Of course, it could be that the item is an off spec item. Gear points should never be assigned for off spec items, and a different method of paying for them should be established. Within The Hidden Circle, a contribution toward the guild’s enchanting materials (currently this is 2 [Large Prismatic Shard]) is requested instead. These materials are then used to enchant raiding gear for any member that asks for them, free of charge. Similarly unwanted loot and green trash drops are disenchanted and added to this pile.

Of course, EPGP isn’t the only system that tries to keep distribution fair, but it’s the fairest I’ve come across yet.

  1. 3 Responses to “Phat Purples #3: Fairer Systems”

  2. By Tankette on Aug 26, 2008

    The problems wee had with the EPGP system, beyond the fact we didn’t have a decay, is figuring out effort points. There are so many details to decide and I think our officers couldn’t ever get on the same page about them.

    For example, we gave effort points when a boss was dropped. But is a Kara boss the same as a SSC boss? Some said yes because the geared players need to keep running Kara to help the undergeared get gear. Others said no, Kara is way too easy.

    So then what about ZA? Harder bosses, first time kills for the guild. Effort points? Some say yes, it is progression. Others say no, only 25 man content counts for progression.

    Only 25 man content- does that include Gruuls and Mags? Again, debate.

    How much extra effort points do you reward for being on time? Deduct for being late?

    Joeheals dropped from the raid group as soon as the last boss was dropped but before effort points. He whispers an officer the next time he gets on that he’s short some points. That officer wasn’t in the raid so he has to ask another officer.

    There’s no officer in a run to do EPGP points. So they write everything down that happened, loot picked up, bosses dropped, who was early, who was late, who dropped out in the middle of the raid. That info gets passed onto an officer to update points. Somebody argues that a mistake was made.

    These are examples of what we experienced. All could be handled and overcome but they take time and effort.

  3. By Namthe on Sep 3, 2008

    We eliminated most of those by not using DKP for any 10-man runs. It just isn’t needed.

    As for 25-mans, if there isn’t an officer present then I’m amazed the run works at all.

  4. By Tankette on Oct 13, 2008

    You might be interested to know that our guild is debating loot distribution once again. There are many competing ideas and none are clearly favored. Some want “loot council”, some want to go to EPGP with decay, some want regular DKP and some want to just stick to rolling for items.

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